Talk:Stan Rogers

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Cremation[edit]

"Rogers was one of the passengers still on the plane at the time of the fire. His ashes were scattered..." reads, unfortunately, as though he was burned to ashes on the plane, and scattered from there. Can anyone add details of where and when his actual cremation took place? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:30, 30 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Error in death age[edit]

I noticed that his age at death is shown in his info box as 33, clearly 1949 to 1983 should be 53. I changed it in the article body, and made some corrections in the template (missing spaces) but the infobox STILL shows 33. Not sure how to fix it. JamesG5 (talk) 06:21, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

JamesG5: You need to check your arithmetic I'm afraid; 33 is correct. 53 years after 1949 would be in the 21st century. I've reverted the article. Wham2001 (talk) 10:37, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You're right. That's what I get for editing in the middle of the night. JamesG5 (talk) 19:53, 14 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Death and Tertiary Source Issues[edit]

The following passage in the Death section has several issues:

"These legends are verifiably false, as the National Transportation Safety Board ran a full investigation of the incident and interviewed every single survivor, and there is no firsthand account, official or unofficial, of such an occurrence. Stan Rogers most likely died before the doors were even opened, due to smoke inhalation from the fire. Regardless of this, however, the circumstances of Rogers' death still continue to circulate as folklore. As Rogers' official biographer Chris Gudgeon writes:"

Firstly, the NTSB investigation report NTSBI/AAR-861/02 states on Page 66, Paragraph 1, Sentence 5 that, "It is also possible that some of the passengers were incapacitated because of exposure to toxic gases and smoke during the descent and landing." This is far less definitive than what the section currently suggests. The investigation did not definitively confirm if any passengers died before the plane landed. The reference used in this section (Winick, Stephen, 2017) is not definitive either, stating, "It’s not even clear Stan was alive when the doors opened. The people who died were all subject to smoke inhalation for a half hour and then suddenly engulfed in flames. No one reached their charred bodies for some time thereafter. No one can be sure how or when in the sequence of events they died."

The both NTSB reports include references to passenger interviews, but these are generally limited to confirming the actions of the crew and the chronology of the accident. No interview transcripts or summaries are included. The report was focused on determining the causes of the accident and the effectiveness of the response, rather than preserving a historical account. As such, stating that the lack of evidence in these reports confirms that the legends are false is questionable and misrepresents the report contents.

Given the above, I would suggest a re-write to the following:

There are no known first-hand accounts of Rogers' behviour during the accident and the veracity of the legends surrounding the accident cannot be verified. Some, such as folklorist Stephen Winick, believe that these legends are false and that Rogers may have died due to smoke inhalation before the doors were even opened (Winick, Stephen, 2017). Regardless of this, however, the circumstances of Rogers' death still continue to circulate as folklore. As Rogers' official biographer Chris Gudgeon writes:" TheCoffeeSloth (talk) 23:43, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot to mention the issue with the tertiary source (Winick, Stephen, 2017). The reference provides a reception of Stan Rogers' songwriting and death, written over 30 years after the accident. I believe that it is an appropriate reference for discussing the legacy of Rogers' work and death. However, the reference is far from a primary source on Rogers' death and care should be taken to ensure that it is used appropriately. TheCoffeeSloth (talk) 00:15, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest fixing it. BTW, I'd suggest treating baseless statements as such. They are only legends if more than a few people said them. And "cannot be verified" implies that they have at least some basis, which they apparently do not. North8000 (talk) 13:52, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]