Template talk:Infobox university

adding a tuition field

Hello, I was wondering if anyone else would support adding a tuition field to this infobox? I think a lot of people looking at universities on Wikipedia would want to be able to quickly see that. We could add an in-state tuition and out-of-state tuition box. Any feedback? Hannahthom7 (talk) 13:57, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

This seems like it might be a good idea. It might be better done as two definable labels, as "in-state" and "out-of-state" are US-specific (the UK equivalents would be "home" and "international", for example). Would we want to also include fees for (post-)graduate courses? At that point things could easily become complex with different fee levels for different schools. Robminchin (talk) 21:34, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

No thanks. This is way too complex and ever-changing to be appropriately captured in the infobox as has been discussed many time (in the Talk page archives). ElKevbo (talk) 21:43, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

We should not add this field. It would be highly misleading, because a large proportion of people do not pay the nominal tuition rate, and the true cost of attending a university or college often includes housing and meals and other fees that are not accounted for in a standard way. We run the risk of having outside people saying inaccurate things like "According to Wikipedia, it costs $60,000 per year to attend Foo University." – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:45, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 23 July 2024

Please add a field for university “Acceptance rate” TapticInfo (talk) 12:21, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not convinced this is a basic parameter for universities globally that needs to be in the top infobox. For US institutions, 'admit rate' (which is presumably what is being requested here) is already given in template:Infobox U.S. college admissions, which is (usually) placed in the admissions sub-section under academics. That seems a far more appropriate place for it. Robminchin (talk) 16:32, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit template-protected}} template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:14, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree that this would not a good addition to this already bloated infobox. As Robminchin said, this is information best left for a more specific portion of the article body. Further, many editors mistakenly add material to articles about U.S. colleges and universities "admissions" processes when the information is only about undergraduate admissions; a generic parameter labeled only "Acceptance rate" would likely contribute to that confusion. ElKevbo (talk) 01:19, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Use of latin_name for romanization

Several universities, for example V. Dokuchaev Kharkiv National Agrarian University, have native names in the Cyrillic Script and have romanizations listed in the latin_name field. I had removed some as obviously not Latin before I realized that's what was meant. Should the rest be removed as well? Should there be a field for romanization? Does the romanization belong in the lede? McYeee (talk) 21:48, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Romanization of Ukrainian, it looks like the {{lang-uk}}, {{lang}} or {{transl}} templates is the preferred method of giving both Cyrillic and romanized forms of Ukrainian names. I assume this would apply in the infobox as well, so using one of these templates in the "name=" field would seem the best approach, e.g.:

:name={{lang-uk| Харківський національний аграрний університет ім. В.В. Докучаєва| translit= Kharkivskyi natsionalnyi ahrarnyi universytet im. V.V. Dokuchaieva| translit-std= ungegn}}

Robminchin (talk) 23:12, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

Do you mean

::native_name={{lang-uk| Харківський національний аграрний університет ім. В.В. Докучаєва| translit= Kharkivskyi natsionalnyi ahrarnyi universytet im. V.V. Dokuchaieva| translit-std= ungegn}}

or something else? I think name is for English? McYeee (talk) 03:14, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, so busy working out the other template I got confused on this one! Robminchin (talk) 04:07, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Done. Is there an easy way to search for university infoboxes with names listed in Cyrillic? If so, I'll look into fixing more of them. McYeee (talk) 22:18, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't know of one I'm afraid. There might be some clever thing that can be done with maintenance categories but that's not something I know much about. Robminchin (talk) 23:53, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Darn. Thanks McYeee (talk) 19:48, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

McYeeeI'm going to play around with regex. I think that having the infobox in an article and then name (making sure native name doesn't hit) followed by an equals, and then at least one Cyrillic letter prior to the next pipe or closing brace would be what you are looking for, right? If you could tell me one that still needs to be fixed, that would help. (for Cyrillic letter, I'm going to use the range from A (Cyrillic) to Ya (Cyrillic). I know that might miss some letters, but I'm betting no university name will *only* have Cyrillic letters that are non-Slavic. Naraht (talk) 23:15, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Can't seem to get it working the way I want any examples, I can try to get to ping on?Naraht (talk) 23:29, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

I think I may have explained my request poorly. Here's an example of what I'm looking for. Donetsk State University of Management. What's listed as Latin is actually a romanization, not a Latin name. I believe there are a few more of these and I may have deleted some of them thinking they were patent nonsense rather than a misuse of the template. What I was hoping to do is go through the list of universities with Cyrillic in their native names which also have latin listed to check to see if they are romanizations.

Also, can you link me to where I can run a regex search on field values? McYeee (talk) 23:55, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%2Fnfobox+University%2F+insource%3A%2F%5B%5C%7C+%5Dname+%2A%3D+%2A%5B%5E%7D%5C%7C%5D%2B%5B%D0%B0%D0%90%5D%2F&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1&ns1=1&ns2=1&ns3=1&ns4=1&ns5=1&ns6=1&ns7=1&ns8=1&ns9=1&ns10=1&ns11=1&ns12=1&ns13=1&ns14=1&ns15=1&ns100=1&ns101=1&ns118=1&ns119=1&ns710=1&ns711=1&ns828=1&ns829=1 , maybe I'm missing something, but I think in additon to having Infobox University, it has name (but with a space or pipe before) the the equals (with spaces) and then some number of characters that aren't pipe or close brace and then either an A in Cyrillic (either upper or lower), if I could get this to work, I'd expand to more Cyrillic letters.Naraht (talk) 23:59, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

We want native_name to by Cyrillic. This revised search does that, but we also want to restrict it to pages with the latin field set McYeee (talk) 00:03, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Thoughts on latin_name

Someone mentioned recently that this parameter is probably being overused. Unfortunately I can't find that post now, but I have had some thoughts on what "University name in Latin, if commonly referenced" means:

1. This is for the university's Latin name, not a translation into Latin of the English name. If there no evidence that a Latin name is ever used, this parameter should be blank.
2. If the only usage is on the university seal and degree certificates, which are self-published primary sources, this is evidence of the name existing, per WP:ABOUTSELF, but does not demonstrate that the name is "commonly referenced". Putting the Latin name in the infobox on the basis of this is likely to be WP:UNDUE
3. If the Latin name is "commonly referenced", it should be relatively easy to find evidence of the Latin name, possibly in abbreviated form (such as in post-nominals), used in WP:RELIABLE sources.

And, on a related topic:

• The Latin name should be in the nominative (with universitas or collegium for university of college), but sources may use a different Latin declension (seals and. In particular, seals will often have something like Sigillum Universitatis Illyriensis (Seal of the University of Illyria) on them, using the genetive form. Degree certificates may also have something like Praecis et Coratores Universitatis Illyriensis (The President and Trustees of the University of Illyria), again using the genetive. WP:Competence is required means that editors need to be able to recognise and deal with this if they're going to edit this parameter. Robminchin (talk) 23:36, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up; I've certainly argued for less use of this parameter. I'd also like to add that post nominals can sometimes be abbreviations of English as in Soton and that, because of the way adjectives also decline in Latin, it requires some skill to determine whether the nominative is Illyriensis or Illyriense. McYeee (talk) 23:58, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Is there consensus here? If not, assuming no one else says anything, how much longer should we wait? McYeee (talk) 20:18, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I'd normally leave it a week to give people a chance to comment and discuss how best to implement this in the documentation. Robminchin (talk) 20:44, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Should we edit the documentation? McYeee (talk) 22:23, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

For the new documentation, possibly something like: "University name in Latin, if commonly referenced. This should not simply be a translation of the English name but should have a reliable independent reference showing use (possibly in abbreviated form) as the Latin name. Use only seen in self-published, primary sources, such as the institution's seal or degrees, is likely to be WP:UNDUE in the infobox. The name should be given in the Nominative." How does this sound? Robminchin (talk) 15:59, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

That looks good to me. I've updated the documentation to your wording, except that the links don't seem to render. I have no idea why they don't, but I don't think it has anything to do with my edit. McYeee (talk) 19:59, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I looked back in the history, and it seems that other links aren't rendering in the documentation from before your edit. I thought they had worked in the past (and clearly people have added them in the past), so maybe something has broken in the rendering engine? Robminchin (talk) 20:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

They did. archived I wonder if it's a known bug. McYeee (talk) 22:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 11 September 2024

Please include the following "Sanctioned Entity " Nbarchaeo (talk) 19:02, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

You need to first establish consensus that this should be included. It doesn't seem obvious that this is a relevant parameter. Robminchin (talk) 21:22, 11 September 2024 (UTC)