Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)
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Less images being uploaded
[edit]Why are less images being uploaded today? It wasn't like that from 2006 to 2009, many images were uploaded at that time period. Is there a reason why the image uploads declined after that period of time? MJGTMKME123 (talk) 21:49, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- Possibly because images to suit many purposes have already been uploaded, making new ones unnecessary? AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:53, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- Okay but, why can't we upload new images that replace the old ones? MJGTMKME123 (talk) 21:54, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- There is nothing preventing appropriate and policy-compliant images from being uploaded. As to when it is appropriate to replace an existing image with a new one, that will depend on the specifics: newer isn't necessarily better. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- What is the criteria that determines if an existing image should be replaced with a newer and less outdated version? MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:00, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- If someone finds it worth uploading in each particular instance? I have very little clue what sort of general rule you'd expect there to be. Remsense ‥ 论 22:03, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for the response. But how can contributors decide if a new image is worth uploading for a specific article? MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:13, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- There is no general answer to this line of questioning. Improved media are uploaded if editors discover or create them; what constitutes an improvement depends entirely on the media in question. Remsense ‥ 论 22:18, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for the response. But how can contributors decide if a new image is worth uploading for a specific article? MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:13, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- Do you have an image that you think would illustrate an article better than whatever is already there? Then upload it and add it to the article, replacing the old one. Then, when someone reverts, explain on the Talk page why yours is better. —Tamfang (talk) 17:56, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- If someone finds it worth uploading in each particular instance? I have very little clue what sort of general rule you'd expect there to be. Remsense ‥ 论 22:03, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- What is the criteria that determines if an existing image should be replaced with a newer and less outdated version? MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:00, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- There is nothing preventing appropriate and policy-compliant images from being uploaded. As to when it is appropriate to replace an existing image with a new one, that will depend on the specifics: newer isn't necessarily better. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:57, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- Okay but, why can't we upload new images that replace the old ones? MJGTMKME123 (talk) 21:54, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- @MJGTMKME123, what do you mean by "less images being uploaded today"?
- Do you mean specifically what's being uploaded today, as in Sunday, the 25th of August? (If so, please go to Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) and sound the alarm, because a sudden downturn is probably technical in nature.) Or do you mean "in recent years"?
- How much less? Is this like a long-term leveling off? Are you talking about uploads directly to the English Wikipedia, or at Commons? How are you counting the number of uploads? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:20, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- I meant "in recent years". MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:21, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- We have made efforts to direct uploaders Wikimedia Commons whenever appropriate, so having less uploads here could be a good thing. — xaosflux Talk 22:32, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- I'm talking about image uploads on Wikimedia Commons. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:36, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- Are you thinking about any images in particular? Again, we can't really answer your question because it's way too broad. Remsense ‥ 论 22:38, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- I'm just asking about the trend of fewer image uploads in the recent years, but I understand if it's too broad. I was wondering if there are any topics where image uploads have noticeably declined. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:43, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- How do you know that there are fewer uploads? What page or tool are you using to determine the number of uploads? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:56, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- I didn't actually use a tool. I just noticed that most images were made around that time period by just analyzing the date of random images. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:59, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- @MJGTMKME123, I suggest looking at c:Commons:Statistics of uploads vs deletions, which gives the number of annual uploads from 2003 through 2022, and which does not support your hypothesis that there has been a multi-year decline in uploads.
- If you know anything about SQL, you can run queries like this and get whatever numbers you want. I use the "check 10 pages in Special:Random" method a lot, but you've got to remember that it's really quite a crude estimate, and if your random images weren't actually random (e.g., they were images used in Wikipedia articles), then you'd be looking at a crude estimate of a biased sample, which is basically worthless. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:07, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- Okay thanks, I just realized that there are actually more uploads on the recent years then I expected. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 23:11, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- That's way more useful data than what I found just below. So uploads to Commons have risen steadily if non-monotonically, and there is no year for which the number of files uploaded was less than
anyall of the three previous years. Folly Mox (talk) 23:19, 25 August 2024 (UTC) edited 10:16, 26 August 2024 (UTC) - This wouldn't account for which images are actually being used in articles (plenty of Commons images aren't), but I'd be very surprised if those are mostly pre-2009. ― novov (t c) 10:10, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- I think most of them are pre-2009, I'm not entirely sure though. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 11:04, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- What do you base that on? The number of articles in the English Wikipedia has more than doubled since 2009 (3,144,000 on 1 Jan 2010, 6,764,355 on 1 Jan 2024), and images in older articles are often replaced, so I suspect a large majority of images in articles have been added since 2009. For your claim to be valid, editors would have had to be preferencially using images uploaded before 2009 to add to articles. However, an analysis of the upload dates of a large enough sample of images currently in use in articles would be needed to support your claim. Frankly, I don't think that is worth pursuing, as I don't see its relevance to building a quality encyclopedia. Donald Albury 13:49, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Donald Albury Thank you for pointing that out. I guess I was mistaken about the upload dates of the images. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 14:06, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- What do you base that on? The number of articles in the English Wikipedia has more than doubled since 2009 (3,144,000 on 1 Jan 2010, 6,764,355 on 1 Jan 2024), and images in older articles are often replaced, so I suspect a large majority of images in articles have been added since 2009. For your claim to be valid, editors would have had to be preferencially using images uploaded before 2009 to add to articles. However, an analysis of the upload dates of a large enough sample of images currently in use in articles would be needed to support your claim. Frankly, I don't think that is worth pursuing, as I don't see its relevance to building a quality encyclopedia. Donald Albury 13:49, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- I think most of them are pre-2009, I'm not entirely sure though. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 11:04, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- I didn't actually use a tool. I just noticed that most images were made around that time period by just analyzing the date of random images. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:59, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- As one potentially interesting pair of datapoints, I see that c:Commons:Database reports/Page count by namespace (current as of June 2014, almost exactly a decade ago) shows 22,097,492 pages in the
File:
namespace, of which fewer than 2% were redirects. Executing the Magic word{{NUMBEROFFILES}}
on Commons today returns 107,994,945. So there have been some uploads. Folly Mox (talk) 22:59, 25 August 2024 (UTC)- @Folly Mox Thanks for sharing that data, that means I might have underestimated the number of uploads. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 23:04, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- How do you know that there are fewer uploads? What page or tool are you using to determine the number of uploads? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:56, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- I'm just asking about the trend of fewer image uploads in the recent years, but I understand if it's too broad. I was wondering if there are any topics where image uploads have noticeably declined. MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:43, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- Are you thinking about any images in particular? Again, we can't really answer your question because it's way too broad. Remsense ‥ 论 22:38, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- I meant "in recent years". MJGTMKME123 (talk) 22:21, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
- On a related point, please consider looking through the popular articles for a favorite subject area – most WikiProjects have a page like Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Popular pages – and seeing what new images could/should be added. Not having an adequate number of images in each article is a constant complaint from readers, and it even has benefits beyond the obvious value of the image itself (e.g., helping people with dyslexia keep their eyes on the right part of the article). WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:08, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
- Another source for images (which I suspect has been under utilized) are family photos. For example, over his lifetime my Dad took approximately 4,000 photos which are in slide format. While some will be of little interest to Wikimedia in general -- I doubt anyone is eager to see photos of llywrch's first birthday -- there are a number of images that I know will be of interest, such as photos of his business trips to Sudan & Nigeria, photos Oregon from as far back as 1960, & so forth. (I have some of a railway train that ran between Banks & Vernonia back in the 1960s that no longer exists. The trackway has since then been converted to the Banks–Vernonia State Trail. I've already uploaded a few of these to Commons. I'd be far more along with sharing these on Commons except that for many I'm missing information. For example, he visited an agricultural station in a town in Western Sudan -- for which I'd be surprised if we had any photos -- however I don't remember/know the name of that town.I expect there are countless Wikipedians with older family members who were hobbyist photographers, so this is a resource begging to be exploited. (PS, I had discussed doing this with my father before he passed, so I definitely have permission to do this.) -- llywrch (talk) 22:43, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
"In the news" section on the homepage?
[edit]Seems to be a primary spot for the site, but not updated very much. Is someone overseeing this section or is there some reason it doesn't get refreshed regularly? 2600:6C4A:4E7F:8D9D:6519:3F9A:34BF:6983 (talk) 11:32, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- There's a reasonably sized subcommunity who decide which news stories are linked at "In the news". The conversations are held at WP:ITN/C. You should be able to participate without an account, assuming some knowledge of Wikipedia policy. Folly Mox (talk) 11:53, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- In my experience, knowledge of policy is not a prerequisite and in fact conflicts with common practice. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- I think you have a common misunderstanding of what this section actually is. It is not meant to be a continuously updated news ticker, it is a way of showcasing articles that have been updated to reflect recent events. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:42, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- Your thoughts are appreciated. If the main page had 138 million page views in the last 30 days, maybe the space could be used for something more intriguing or something that changes every day like the other sections on the main page? 2600:6C4A:4E7F:8D9D:F09D:D640:9B79:6F77 (talk) 18:14, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- We don't updated ITN particularly quickly compared to a normal news website. I think the normal cadence is a new news item in the ITN box every few days. And there's only around 4 bullets so not that many total news items either. I'm not sure the reasoning for this... maybe limited space, and the editor time it would take to do more voluminous or more frequent updates? –Novem Linguae (talk) 14:15, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- No, ITN does not have a formal overseer, unlike other mainpage sections which are either driven by a single key volunteer or elected coordinator. But it has plenty of editors who hang around and vote on nominations. Very little gets through this gauntlet and so the section often gets stale, as you have noticed. Most recently, ITN ran the same picture of a cyclist for ten straight days. There were plenty of other pictures that might have been run but no-one was accountable or responsible for making this happen.
- The good news is that this doesn't much matter because our readers just go straight to topics which are in the news. For example, the top read article on Wikipedia yesterday was WWE Bash in Berlin. But you'd never see that at ITN because, for some reason, such combat sports get no love at ITN – InedibleHulk can perhaps explain why that is.
- If you want to browse what's happening in the world, then the best place to look is Portal:Current_events, which seems to work much better because there's a crew of editors more focussed on posting items than arguing about them. For example, today it reports that "
NASA announces discovery of Earth's subtle electric field, which contributes to the polar wind phenomenon.
" Such interesting science gets little love at ITN too. - Andrew🐉(talk) 19:23, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- It all began on a night of indeterminate day and month in 1872, at the Zirkus Salamonsky in Berlin. Carl Kempf and Adolf Grün may or may not have "torn the house down". After that, it gets a bit fuzzy (though some online databases still never forget the man behind the curtain). InedibleHulk (talk) 22:59, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- I would say that if you want to browse “what is currently happening in the world”, the best place is a dedicated news outlet… not an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia is better for history than current events. Blueboar (talk) 22:21, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- And Wikipedia does, after all, generally by "lag" when it comes to information, by necessity since we focus on citing what others have already said. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 23:43, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
Andrew🐉(talk) 08:40, 2 September 2024 (UTC)"In truth, whatever is worth doing at all, is worth doing well; and nothing can be done well without attention"
— Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield, Letters to his Son (1746)
- Thanks for the info. What if that section rotated with fresh links like the other sections on the main page? Are there any current event links on the page? Or how about positive news items to balance the negative trends of the for profit media? If this is an encyclopedia, maybe in the news section might be better as something else? Just wondering. I have no agenda. Seems a waste of potential to me. 2600:6C4A:4E7F:8D9D:F09D:D640:9B79:6F77 (talk) 18:20, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Or hmmm, maybe a most popular article of the day, or the week, or month, or year, that rotates? Or what was the popular articles on this day last year? 2600:6C4A:4E7F:8D9D:F09D:D640:9B79:6F77 (talk) 18:25, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- These are all good points. The first link above was to discuss ITN candidate articles, but you might also try Wikipedia talk:In the news, which is where to "discuss improvements to the In the news process", and where you'd get responses from the people who would actually make such reforms.
- For my part, I'd note that it's not the popularity of the article (or event) that determines if it gets on the main page, but the article's quality (despite the fact that ITN and WP:DYK are made for new-and-improved articles). This could be expressed more clearly about ITN on the main page, but typically a major news story will attract a lot of old and new editors, and consequent quality control, regardless of its appearance on the main page or linking elsewhere. That said, I agree that the section could be more dynamic day by day (while still even restricting it to 4 or so quality items), just by rethinking that instead of being so exclusive about what is added, we be exclusive about what is kept on for more than a single day or two (regardless of whether a news event is considered ongoing). Rotation is a fine idea for a possible implementation. SamuelRiv (talk) 19:10, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
The dubious template
[edit]What should be done to overhaul the {{dubious}} template? Literally every time I've seen it on an article, there is zero discussion on the talk page about what may be dubious in the article. I discussed this on the talk page a while back, but the discussion just went around in circles and fizzled out. Should a drive be done to remove drive-by instances of this tag where no discernible discussion exists? Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:40, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- I see that you have asked this exact same question at three different locations (here, and at the WP:V and WP:RS talk pages). That is not helpful, as the discussions may end up working at cross purposes. Please choose one location for us to discuss this, and close the other threads. Thanks. Blueboar (talk) 20:34, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- I think of the "– discuss" as an invitation, rather than a requirement. Start a discussion if you want one. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- The position taken by Jason Quinn (pinging) in the discussion you linked, especially
So rather than a red link for "discuss" appearing if the parameter is not used, the "discuss" link should only appear if it is used
and emphasis on the tag as a marker of dubious content seems rather reasonable. Ifly6 (talk) 16:33, 30 August 2024 (UTC) - Nothing, users should at least fill out the reason =, and if that's not sufficiently obvious, start a discussion on talk like one would for any other tag. If not, some enterprising soul will likely revert the tag.Selfstudier (talk) 16:52, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- I think sometimes the
|reason=
is obvious enough that it doesn't need to be explained, too. I think that sometimes {{dubious}} gets used when the material really ought to have been removed instead, but the editor doesn't feel like it's okay to do that. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:09, 30 August 2024 (UTC)- I thought after reading your first sentence, "if it's that obvious then surely the dubious claim should be removed", but then I read and agreed with your second sentence. Too many people are too diffident about removing things. I must say that I think I have used this template a few times, but, as far as I can remember, I have always started a discussion. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:57, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- Agree with this too. Re
Should a drive be done to remove drive-by instances of this tag where no discernible discussion exists?
– I don't think there's much of a need to remove dubious without parameters. There are a lot of cases where editors are fearful of stepping on others' toes by just removing it. Ifly6 (talk) 22:14, 30 August 2024 (UTC)- The {{POV}} templates generally require an active discussion. It's one of our defenses against using then as a badge of shame, since we've had problems with people adding that template as a sort of public protest for not getting their way. I've occasionally cleaned out some old undiscussed ones, but even in an anti-tag-bombing mood, there have been a few never-discussed tags that I thought were very obviously deserved. I expect that some of the {{dubious}} tags are the same: there's no discussion, but you don't need an explanation to know why that's doubted.
- There are only ~7K articles with this tag. There are 1200 biographies, 1600 STEM articles (including 12 medicine/health articles), 1200 about Asia, 1300 about Europe, etc. We can get search results for any subject named here, if you happen to have an interest area or favorite WikiProject in mind. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:32, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: what do you suggest then? Seems every time I bring this up, it just turns into an endless cycle of "We should do something." "Should we do something?" "We should do something." "Should we do something?" and nothing ever gets done. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 16:22, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- If you see such tag, it's not obvious why it's there and there is no talk page discussion, just remove it. Also can remove it if it's dated. Selfstudier (talk) 16:44, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- TPH, I don't think we should particularly worry about this. It's being used in about 0.1% of articles, which isn't much. The problem is sometimes obvious, so no discussion or reason needs to be given. In other cases, a discussion or reason has been given.
- I think it should be treated like a {{citation needed}} template: Please be responsible about cleaning it up, but don't treat it like it's an emergency. I think that anything in Category:All unreferenced BLPs or Category:Wikipedia suspected hoax articles would be more urgent than this. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:44, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- But just as we have a {{citation needed span}} template, we can and should have span templates for all inline content tagging. Imo this should be the default expected usage.
- (Imo we also should have the inline citations themselves be placed in spans (which may help slow content drift) -- I drafted a template for this, but it's more of a VP proposal I think). SamuelRiv (talk) 23:15, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hard agree on the span question. It's sometimes insufficiently clear what the tag is tagging; moreover, the span is very useful for readers to be signalled as to why some matter might be insufficiently sourced or (here) dubious. Ifly6 (talk) 23:54, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think that either of those would be a good idea until phab:T52355 happens, and that might not happen during the present decade. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:45, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Seems a silly reason to delay if tl:c-n-span works acceptably enough. If the core issue is functionality with nesting, there are plenty of workarounds and alternative solutions, since the entire point of the "span" template is just so that editors see what is marked; it's not even necessary that the html span be explicitly encoded (any nested tl:fix-span template markup can just be converted to comments, for example). SamuelRiv (talk) 02:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- @SamuelRiv, I see that you haven't ever tried to remove {{citation needed span}} in the visual editor, without losing the spanned text. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:47, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don't regularly use VE, but testing, I don't see a problem editing a cns in a single layer as a template. To delete a template in VE, it seems one has to manually copy contents one wants to keep to a clipboard. The phabricator requests seems to also be about adding a citation to the enclosed text. In any case, there would be alternative solutions. One is that the VE can just keep the enclosed text and change the surrounding template to a custom maintenance template (to be cleaned up by AWB automatically), and the new citation is appended.
- The impetus to implement workarounds like this comes if there's an ecosystem of span templates already. The VE has never been perfect; its improvements are incremental, and meanwhile all VE users have to dip into wikisource from time to time.
- Another quick solution of course is to, instead of using text-enclosure templates, use html span tag substitution templates (one template to open, one to close, with the benefit that the closure template includes the maintenance tag, so it's more likely the editor leaves a dangling closure than opener). tldr: I still see no fundamental technical reason for not making every citation flag spannable, today. SamuelRiv (talk) 05:50, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- It's not about fundamental technical reasons. It's about user experience. We ought to make adding citations as easy as possible, especially for newbies, so they learn to add citations from their very first edits. The fact that I know some workarounds doesn't mean that it's a good idea. Not only do I have more experience than 99.995% of editors, I also wrote a good deal of the help pages for the visual editor. The visual editor should be designed to work for people on their first edits, not on their hundred thousandth edits. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- @SamuelRiv, I see that you haven't ever tried to remove {{citation needed span}} in the visual editor, without losing the spanned text. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:47, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Seems a silly reason to delay if tl:c-n-span works acceptably enough. If the core issue is functionality with nesting, there are plenty of workarounds and alternative solutions, since the entire point of the "span" template is just so that editors see what is marked; it's not even necessary that the html span be explicitly encoded (any nested tl:fix-span template markup can just be converted to comments, for example). SamuelRiv (talk) 02:02, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think that either of those would be a good idea until phab:T52355 happens, and that might not happen during the present decade. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:45, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hard agree on the span question. It's sometimes insufficiently clear what the tag is tagging; moreover, the span is very useful for readers to be signalled as to why some matter might be insufficiently sourced or (here) dubious. Ifly6 (talk) 23:54, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
- If you see such tag, it's not obvious why it's there and there is no talk page discussion, just remove it. Also can remove it if it's dated. Selfstudier (talk) 16:44, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- @WhatamIdoing: what do you suggest then? Seems every time I bring this up, it just turns into an endless cycle of "We should do something." "Should we do something?" "We should do something." "Should we do something?" and nothing ever gets done. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 16:22, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- I think sometimes the
Suggested edits tool - Dysfunctional
[edit]I decided to use the edit suggestion tool and focus on adding missing references on women's biographies, but the edit suggestion tool presents me with pages that have nothing to do with the topic even tho I only ticked "Biography (women)" and "Find references (sources for existing articles)"
The tool suggests biographies of men. Example : Jeff Schweitzer
The tool suggests topics related to women, but not biographies. Example : A caress of twilight / 2011 Malaysian open
And these erroneous suggestions are not rare; I see one every 2-3-4 suggestions.
I wasn't sure where to post it, sorry if it's the wrong place. ProudWatermelon (talk) 22:57, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
- I'm able to replicate. I'm not sure if suggestions such as 1999 Toray Pan Pacific Open – Singles and 2015 ITF Women's Circuit (January–March) are genuinely false positives or just a matter of the
articletopic
display name needing some modification, but Francis Erdmann, Duke of Saxe-Lauenburg, Palakuan, and Visual Focus Depth Art certainly seem erroneous.The LiftWing model probably needs some parameters tweaked. Anyone up for creating a phab task withMachine-Learning-Team
tagged? Folly Mox (talk) 00:07, 29 August 2024 (UTC)- Pinging @Trizek (WMF) WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:40, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- After a brief sleep, I realised anyone can see this behaviour without going through the full Suggested Edits endpoint with a simple
articletopic:women
search like this one. Folly Mox (talk) 10:41, 29 August 2024 (UTC)- Have you observed similar issues with other topics? Trizek_(WMF) (talk) 14:28, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- I edited David A. Louton yesterday, and it's no longer appearing in
articletopic:women
search results. I suspect that in some cases, especially when the page is short, the software makes the wrong guess about the subject. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:46, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
Template:Permanent dead link
[edit]{{Permanent dead link}}, currently a redirect to {{Dead link}}, needs to be modified so that it transcludes {{Dead link}} with the |fix-attempted=yes
template parameter already specified. Because then it would be a convenient shortcut to transcluding that template with that parameter, as right now it's a deceptive and rather useless redirect which doesn't do that. How can this be accomplished?
P.s. I took a look at an existing template that does a similar thing, {{Edit semi-protected}}, but it uses code that invokes a module in the Module: namespace, which this 'Dead link' template doesn't have. — AP 499D25 (talk) 11:58, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- While I was writing this, I just thought of block notice templates like {{Uw-blocknotalk}}. However, I don't have a strong knowledge of template code, and so I don't know what a "safesubst:" is. I'm not sure if the includeonly and safesubst bits would be necessary in this 'Permanent dead link' template conversion, especially since it isn't going to be substituted when being used.
- Update: using the code from the blocking templates as said above, I wrote Special:PermaLink/1242911547 in Template:X1 sandbox, and tested out transcluding it in another sandbox, comparing it to a plain old transclusion of 'Dead link' with the parameter manually specified. All looks identical and normal to me. So can someone confirm with me that the code is all valid? — AP 499D25 (talk) 12:06, 29 August 2024 (UTC) updated 12:27, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- You might want to ask on WP:VPT, the editors watching that page will be better able to help you. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 21:17, 29 August 2024 (UTC)
- AP 499D25, looks good to me. The safesubst: is necessary for allowing it to be both transcluded and subst:ed.
|bot=
is probably unnecessary, because bots should be using the normal template directly. — Qwerfjkltalk 09:21, 30 August 2024 (UTC)- Alright thanks! I'll be going ahead with publishing the redirect to template conversion now, and per your suggestion I'll take out the 'bot' parameter bit. — AP 499D25 (talk) 11:15, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
?` for each symbol of string ` template ?
[edit]does such a template exist and/or is there some other way to achieve the effect of calling a template with the every symbol of a given string as the argument
also i apologize if this is the incorrect place to ask- if so please point me to the correct one so that i can ask any further questions about templates there
thanks in advance akizet talk 20:41, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- WP:VPT is probably the correct place to ask. I don't understand your question though. An example might help. –Novem Linguae (talk) 22:27, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
- not moving the discussion as it would result in the same question beïng in two places which seems undesirable
what i meant was a{{for loop}}
-like template such that e.g{{template name|key press|abc}}
results in ` abc ` - howëver i have since reälized i might not need it for what i'm doïng after all · still would be helpful though
- akizet talk 08:37, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
- not moving the discussion as it would result in the same question beïng in two places which seems undesirable
Announcing the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee
[edit]- Original message at wikimedia-l. You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to other languages.
Hello all,
The scrutineers have finished reviewing the vote and the Elections Committee have certified the results for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) special election.
I am pleased to announce the following individual as regional members of the U4C, who will fulfill a term until 15 June 2026:
- North America (USA and Canada)
- Ajraddatz
The following seats were not filled during this special election:
- Latin America and Caribbean
- Central and East Europe (CEE)
- Sub-Saharan Africa
- South Asia
- The four remaining Community-At-Large seats
Thank you again to everyone who participated in this process and much appreciation to the candidates for your leadership and dedication to the Wikimedia movement and community.
Over the next few weeks, the U4C will begin meeting and planning the 2024-25 year in supporting the implementation and review of the UCoC and Enforcement Guidelines. You can follow their work on Meta-Wiki.
On behalf of the U4C and the Elections Committee,
RamzyM (WMF) 14:05, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
Have your say: Vote for the 2024 Board of Trustees!
[edit]Hello all,
The voting period for the 2024 Board of Trustees election is now open. There are twelve (12) candidates running for four (4) seats on the Board.
Learn more about the candidates by reading their statements and their answers to community questions.
When you are ready, go to the SecurePoll voting page to vote. The vote is open from September 3rd at 00:00 UTC to September 17th at 23:59 UTC.
To check your voter eligibility, please visit the voter eligibility page.
Best regards,
The Elections Committee and Board Selection Working Group
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:14, 3 September 2024 (UTC)
Presenting information
[edit]I'm thinking how to illustrate some different definitions in Pandemic. These can be hypothetical; the point is just to communicate that different definitions sometimes have different answers to the question of "Is this a pandemic?"
I've been thinking about a table that says something like this:
Fact | Required for definition #1 | Required for definition #2 |
---|---|---|
More than 1% of people infected | ![]() |
![]() |
Schools closed | ![]() |
![]() |
Limited population immunity | ![]() |
![]() |
Hospitals overwhelmed | ![]() |
![]() |
Affecting more than two countries | ![]() |
![]() |
Affecting more than 10% of world population | ![]() |
![]() |
Rate of infection higher than normal | ![]() |
![]() |
but then finds a way to present a couple of situations, and says "For story A, it's a pandemic according to definition #1 but not #2; for story B, it's a pandemic according to both definitions; for story C, it's not a pandemic according to definition #1 but it is according to definition #2". I'm not sure how to present this in a way that could be clear at a glance. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:39, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'd do it with bullets rather than a table. (At first glance, "X No" might suggest to the reader that meeting this criterion positively disqualifies from meeting the definition.) Like this:
- Both definitions require
- [criteria]
- Definition A also requires
- [criteria]
- while definition B instead requires
- [criteria]
- Both definitions require
- —Tamfang (talk) 18:01, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
Issue I have with a draft list article I am currently working on
[edit]I am stuck as to what to do regarding a draft I am working on (Draft:List of Buddha statues).
While I was working on the article I went on the article, Hōgyū Jizō expecting to add it to the list but the thing is that Hōgyū Jizō is a group of Buddha statues but like lots of Buddha statues (107 in total) so I don’t know if I should add all off them to the list, add them all collectively as a group to the list and add a note saying how it is a group of Buddha statues and not a singular statue or to just not add anything about it all together. Outlined Sandbox (talk) 18:27, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- What is your current criteria for inclusion on the list? CMD (talk) 19:11, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- My criteria for notability in the list is if the Buddha statue has a reference, its own article or section within an article.
- The thing is that the statues as a group have their own article so as a group I would consider them notable but separately they are not notable so I don’t know whether to just not have anything about it in the draft or just to add it as a group collectively with a note about how it is a group. Outlined Sandbox (talk) 20:14, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- Lists that are mostly about single examples of a topic often include links to articles about a group. See, for examples, List of islands of Florida, in which several items are about groups of islands. Lists should be about helping readers find articles about a particular type of thing. Donald Albury 22:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for telling me this. I will now add it as a group. Outlined Sandbox (talk) 14:44, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Lists that are mostly about single examples of a topic often include links to articles about a group. See, for examples, List of islands of Florida, in which several items are about groups of islands. Lists should be about helping readers find articles about a particular type of thing. Donald Albury 22:00, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
This right here is my 3,000,000th Wikimedia-wide edit*
[edit]I'm just saying. Cheers! BD2412 T 02:18, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Congratulations and thanks for all your contributions! Here's to 3 million more! Legoktm (talk) 03:10, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- 3 million more is not outside the bounds of possibility. I'm not aiming for it, though. BD2412 T 03:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Jeepers. I'll be lucky to make a tenth as many. —Tamfang (talk) 01:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- * As reported by the Global account information tool.
Geoffrey Duchet
[edit]Hi everybody. I was searching about a person named Geoffrey Duchet, but he doesn't have any biography in wikipedia. He was british explorer and he visited persepolis in 1569 AD. My source about him was a persian translated of 1 of books of Alfons Gabriel means Geographical research about Iran (unfortunately all of his books is in german language, and i don't know do any of you can read german books or not). Can somebody build Geoffrey Duchet's biography's page on english wikipedia? Hulu2024 (talk) 13:19, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- And i shall add that i don't have any access on printed books on Geoffrey Duchet's biography to build his page, on myself. please if someone have access to english books on 16 th century, please write his biography. i needed it strongly. Hulu2024 (talk) 13:23, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hulu2024, if you're not willing to do it, it's unlikely anyone else will be - WP:VOLUNTEER. — Qwerfjkltalk 13:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- I eager but i don't have access to academic and primary sources. It's odd that USA and UK have best universities with best storage of book (with monetary online access for western countries) and english wikipedia does the most editors in all languages, but nobody made this historical person's biography. Hulu2024 (talk) 13:43, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Hulu2024: Geoffrey Duchet may not have been notable in his day, hence the lack of coverage. I pretty much could only find modern day people by that name with a Google search.
- The only mention that I found of his name in a Wikimedia article space was in Farsi, fa:ایرانشناسی (English version of the article is Iranian studies). At the end of the sentence mentioning him as جفری داکت, there is a footnote that points to a shortened footnote, موسوی، تخت جمشید، ۱۴. [Mousavi, Persepolis, 14], which then appears to point to a full citation of an encyclopedic text,موسوی، علی (۱۳۸۵). «تخت جمشید». دائرةالمعارف بزرگ اسلامی. ج. ۱۴. تهران: مرکز دائرةالمعارف بزرگ اسلامی. شابک ۹۶۴-۷۰۲۵-۵۴-۸. بایگانیشده از اصلی در ۷ اوت ۲۰۲۴. دریافتشده در ۷ اوت ۲۰۲۴. [Mousavi, Ali (1385). "Persepolis". The great Islamic encyclopedia. c. 14. Tehran: Center for the Great Islamic Encyclopedia. Shabak 964-7025-54-8. Archived from the original on August 7, 2024. Retrieved on August 7, 2024.]
- I have been unable to find anything about about The great Islamic encyclopedia at WorldCat.org, presumably because of my total incompetence in Farsi. You may do better if you understand that language. Also you might find help at the website for the Center for the Great Islamic Encyclopedia, www
.cgie .org .ir /en. Peaceray (talk) 17:06, 6 September 2024 (UTC) - thank you. Hulu2024 (talk) 17:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- I eager but i don't have access to academic and primary sources. It's odd that USA and UK have best universities with best storage of book (with monetary online access for western countries) and english wikipedia does the most editors in all languages, but nobody made this historical person's biography. Hulu2024 (talk) 13:43, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hulu2024, if you're not willing to do it, it's unlikely anyone else will be - WP:VOLUNTEER. — Qwerfjkltalk 13:33, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Does anyone know if there's a style guide about having subjects in images ideally facing the reader or into the article instead of out of it?
[edit]Per title Darkwarriorblake (talk) 14:47, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- MOS:IM. You might also be interested in the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style#"Looking_towards_the_text". Schazjmd (talk) 14:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks so much! Darkwarriorblake (talk) 14:53, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
Proper noun
[edit]Should the word "army" be capitalized when used to mention a specific army, such as the "French army"? M.Bitton (talk) 15:56, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- That does seem to be the general practice in WP articles. Donald Albury 16:31, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. M.Bitton (talk) 19:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)